Lyrics Discussion Thread: Childhood Dreams

[kat_4eva2]

Originally Posted by Maca

Sure, that makes total sense

And that fish thing is so random, you killed me with that

Glad you got what i was ranting on about
haha

lol im not sure why i said the thing about the fish, but im sure its true!!! (it'd be worse if it was a hedgehog though eh? ouch!)

[Maca (Mod)]

Originally Posted by kat_4eva2

Glad you got what i was ranting on about
haha

lol im not sure why i said the thing about the fish, but im sure its true!!! (it'd be worse if it was a hedgehog though eh? ouch!)

People here in Costa Rica carry hedgehogs and anteaters in their handbags all the time, so we're actually used to that.

Jax, I'm glad you're requesting a new song, it's cool to keep them coming, isn't it? But before we move on I have a question about Island of Wonder, if you guys don't mind.

The last verse always gives me trouble:

Island of wonder, where are you going? Nobody knows it

OK, so far it's very straighforward. But then comes:

but it is snowing in the hearts and minds of every kind of universe

I have never known what they mean with this... What does snow have to do with anything?

So this is what I've thought:

The snow thing brings up two images: things that are being frozen or things that are being covered with snow. Maybe by saying that it is snowing in the hearts and minds of every kind of universe, they mean that things are being frozen or covered up with something in the different cultures and individuals of the world. Every culture or nation, or person even, can be a universe on its own, right? With its own idiosyncracy, way of thinking and quirkyness.

The song and the album are about identity and culture. This song specifically is about Nelly's roots. In the chorus she's exploring the past of this island of wonder and how she can feel there's part of her history there (this verse is absolutely brilliant isn't it?):

Island of wonder, where do you come from? Is it the way the sun hits my face? Or is it your memory which I can not trace?

And the ending verse is about what is going to happen to the island of wonder, not as a physical place but as a significant part of Nelly's culture, a culture that includes her but also includes a whole lot of people and things she has yet to discover and identify with.

So maybe the "snowing" thing they refer to is the erosion of culture and the loss of uniqueness. All kinds of hearts and minds (of both cultures and individuals) are being frozen or covered with the snow of standardization that comes with apathy and with not caring about tradition. Every culture is becoming the same or becoming lost instead of embracing the value of being an entire universe on its own.

I think this idea suits the theme of the song, but it's also very evident that Nelly's idea of "folklore" is not just tradition and the ways of the past. To her, folklore and culture are flowing, ever-evolving things, and that's what she was trying to capture with Folklore. Both Fresh Off The Boat and Picture Perfect deal with this, with leaving one land for another and keeping your traditions while finding new horizons. The phrase she used to describe this album was "this is the folklore of my mind".

To me the, embodiment of Nelly's concept of folklore happens right there in Island of Wonder, in the part where someone is whistling and Caetano is making these sounds with his mouth, which is very natural and organic, very traditional, and at the same time there's this whole scratching solo going on. Rural meets urban, traditional meets contemporary. It's perfect.

So the idea of mourning in the final verse about culture being lost is probably not in contradiction with having an ever-changing, ever-enriching culture, but it makes me wonder if those things would be mutually exclusive. What do you guys think?

PS: Wanna do Powerless next? To keep doing the whole Folklore theme...

PPS: Icescape get your ass in here! We miss your input girl

[taylor]

^^^ wow that was long maca, but very interesting! you have made some very good points, and really opened up this song for me and honestly made me like the song more (that's why this is such an awesome thread ). I have always liked Island of Wonder, but i have never really connected with that song as i have her other tracks. anyways, back to your question...

island of wonder
where are you going?
nobody knows it
but it is snowing in the hearts and minds of every kind of universe

... i agree with what you said maca. these lyrics bring to mind winter/snow and during this time the snow falls and covers up the world you knew and litreally transforms it into something new (thats really cool now that i think about it, haha). this fits in well with what you have said about nelly's views on folklore: "but it's also very evident that Nelly's idea of "folklore" is not just tradition and the ways of the past. To her, folklore and culture are flowing, ever-evolving things, and that's what she was trying to capture with Folklore".

i guess what i am saying is that nelly has noticed the loss of some of her "folklore", or maybe not loss but she has noticed it is changing and she has to move foreward. "where are you going?" she asks, and while we are all living our lives "nobody knows it" globalization is occuring and there is a loss of unique culture etc. "it is snowing in the hearts and minds of every kind of universe" all around the world. i think that a lot of this song is about her recognizing that times have changed a lot through these past years with technology etc, and instead of having multiple unique cultures, the human race is developing more of a joint culture together (mcdonalds everywhere!!! haha). i dont know, it brings me back to AGT and how this song has a similar meaning, or so i think lol. change, all good things come to and end, sad yet hopeful etc.

[jax1511]

Maca & Taylor -- absolutely agree with your points and being that Folklore is about Nelly's examination of her past and her roots they definitely make sense. But to be a bit different, and I realize this is a bit of a reach but...

but it is snowing in the hearts and minds of every kind of universe

Aside from the frozen aspects of it, when I think of snowing I also think of children or youth. So perhaps although no one knows where their culture is headed in the future, and even though we're all moving towards globalization and conformity, we're always able to reflect back on our past with childish exuberance. At least for me, reflection is typically to remember happier times and sort of reminisce on how things used to be. It does bring about a certain sadness because you're longing for things that may never come about again, but there's also a sense of hopefulness in thinking about how things will change again, which is why life is so exciting. And although as humans we can lose many things (think in the possession sense), one thing that really can't be taken from you is your memories and how those memories make you feel. I think Nelly is justifying that she recognizes how her culture has changed over the years, but at the same time she realizes certain things have remained the same and how they will continue to remain the same because they are part of her memories of childhood.

I rambled. Haha.

[Maca (Mod)]

Originally Posted by taylor

i think that a lot of this song is about her recognizing that times have changed a lot through these past years with technology etc, and instead of having multiple unique cultures, the human race is developing more of a joint culture together (mcdonalds everywhere!!! haha). i dont know, it brings me back to AGT and how this song has a similar meaning, or so i think lol. change, all good things come to and end, sad yet hopeful etc.

Yeah it does relate to that theme in AGT, that's a really great point. About how you can't help things changing, and it has this tinge of nostalgia to it, but mainly it's hopeful about the whole thing. And this also relates to Jax's comment, which is kind of a reverse take on what we both posted before:

Originally Posted by jax1511

And although as humans we can lose many things (think in the possession sense), one thing that really can't be taken from you is your memories and how those memories make you feel. I think Nelly is justifying that she recognises how her culture has changed over the years, but at the same time she realises certain things have remained the same and how they will continue to remain the same because they are part of her memories of childhood.

You do get this vibe from the song, totally. A great nostalgia but a very cheerful one, Island of Wonder has this great mood of discovery mixed with longing.

Originally Posted by jax1511

At least for me, reflection is typically to remember happier times and sort of reminisce on how things used to be. It does bring about a certain sadness because you're longing for things that may never come about again, but there's also a sense of hopefulness in thinking about how things will change again, which is why life is so exciting.

Yeah, reflection is all about that for me too. It's a thing I love to do, to remember things that happened before and try to remember what they made me feel at the time, what it was like to be seven and be happy about a toy or how it felt to be a teenager and be excited about a date or whatever.

[Icescape]

Oh, I don't mean to ignore this, I'm just busy Anyhow I read all of your posts and liked them all a lot, even the slapping fishes, Kat

I hope you don't mind me getting back to AGT for a moment. (and sorry 'bout the lenght) Some of the things that came into my mind a couple of days ago, and made me feel sort of uncomfortable in taking part in the AGT discussion is how you seem to think that if a song were depressing or honestly sad there would have to be something bad about it. But does there really? Maybe I'm wrong, but to me the beauty in the world is in the bad things just as much as in the good ones...sometimes sadness can have a peculiar aesthetic beauty to it, and to me AGT has that. And I do think the words point to the idea of death, which sometimes is a charming idea, as just that, a thought, because it is truly liberating. I think the new moon is just about that, contemplating on the beauty of the idea of death, that should relieve when the rain doesn't. I don't think Nelly is afraid of admitting the darker sides to life, and maybe they should be approached with less fear..? I also think this hoping of that new moon and death is also at the same time sort of rhapsodical even, amd has that side of secretly enjoying the sadness, since why would you write about something you don't even find beautiful? Death would be a new start here too, I agree, but to me the song seems to leave it to that moment of a low, before she gets up again from hopelessness. I don't find it surprising at all that some of the most beautiful poetry ever written is about something that is already lost. It shows human passions and desire at it's purest, but also it makes it last, makes you're passion eternal, like that "you made an oil painting to immortalise all of the hope..." so death being in art, in a song, encompasses immortality too at the same time in it's very core, doesn't it? There's also something I've heard many times, that I think is a wonderful insight on art, which is that no matter how depressing or sad a story you tell, by the form of art it is made very bearable it changes form somehow, I don't know, it's so hard to explain, I comlpetely agree Alejandro that words fail us desperately Maybe that's my proposal of answer to your question Maca, we mourn the loss, but we love that mourn so I'd say it's possible

It is in imperfect (or past tense, whatever it's called) though in the end, which for me even more leaves this song to that moment of sadness that is still a moment of great realisation about all life could be. See that's what I think is good about sadness, it makes us see through the usual fog that blurs thing, to me this song is about that too. I obviously don't think that my interpretation is better than any of yours (and I appreciated all of them), I just wish you'd allow space for the sorrow too in Nelly's songs. She seems to write in a very inspired and instinctual state, and I think it is only natural that her lyrics too have the darker sides that really all great poets and composers works have.

On Island Of Wonder I agree with all of you much more. Alejandro, I gotta listen to that part of the song again you liked the most, I don't have IOW here, but I'm sure I'll see that passage in a whole another way again Jax (if anyone was bored enough to read this far) I feel that childhood thing strongly too in this.
I for one don't see the line about snowing as something that makes sense that can be put into words, aren't lyrics at best when you feel what they mean, but you could never put it into words? For me they kind of are. With these words I personally get the feeling that it's not symbolic of anything but just more spontaneous, direct, it's just snow and you know it (hehe, taylor and Maca, living where you do, you really are the underdogs in this discussion, lol). Like Atlantis, I think this song on purpose goes to create a very dream like athmosphere, you never really know what the lyrics mean, but you feel the wonder in the air. Like the usage of Atlantis, and a bottomless sea, to me this is a song about those moments in life when you just marvel at something that is beyond your crasp, like snowing, it's just undescribable when the first snow comes again, or one of those dark afternoons when everything is covered in snow, and more is pouring, to me it's just about that feeling. And then it's brilliant how she adds the imperfections, sour coffe, wrinkled face, times that has changed things and so on, to attach the wonder to reality in a special way...

Or maybe, and actually this is what I think at the moment, it combines in one both the old world that is present only in minds anymore - which reappears in moments mervalous just as snowing -, and the idea of that lost world being covered in snow of forgettance, and only in our memories can we stand in the snowfall again...and in other peoples memories. As someone who grew in Canada, I think she has to be connected to the emotional excitement of snow, so I cannot believe it's only about being covered into dust, it's also about the memory to me, the memories that rise are the snow and the Atlantis.

Maca, even if I won't have the time to write here that often, don't worry, I'll still be reading all posts with great interest

[Maca (Mod)]

I get your point about sadness being a beautiful theme just as any other. I really like and enjoy sad music, a couple of Sarah McLachlan songs like Hold On and Full of Grace come to mind pretty clearly.

And that's funny you touched this point cause this is an area Nelly has never fulfilled for me. She doesn't really have any sad, depressing songs. My Love Grows Deeper is the one I always listen to when I have to deal with something that makes me miserable and I need a release, but apart from that and AGT, none of her songs make me sad. Not because they don't talk about sad things, but because of this you mentioned:

Originally Posted by Icescape

There's also something I've heard many times, that I think is a wonderful insight on art, which is that no matter how depressing or sad a story you tell, by the form of art it is made very bearable it changes form somehow

This is where Nelly's gift or whatever for making songs uplifting comes into play. MLGD, In God's Hands and Try are sad, Scared of You, Onde Est?s? and What I Wanted kinda could be sad, but they're not depressing songs. She imprints this sense of hope to them that always makes me at peace. That's what I meant when I talked about opposing forces before, they're songs about loss and mourning but also about the inner strength to beat that.

I have never meant to exclude the presence or observation of sadness from Nelly's songs, I don't think it's a bad or wrong theme at all, I guess I'm just used to it not being present in a very forceful way and that's why its appearance in AGT has confused me so much. It's undeniable that the last verse in AGT is pure art, it's a very apocalyptic scene it brings :

and the sun was wondering if it should stay away for a day, till the feeling went away, and the sky was falling and the clouds were dropping and the rain forgot how to bring salvation

This is beautiful in itsef, in the sadness, desolation and even fear it brings. It doesn't awake "nice", fuzzy feelings, but that doesn't mean that you can't enjoy them, as you so eloquently put it: "we mourn the loss, but we love that mourn".

And you're totally right about this:

Originally Posted by Icescape

I for one don't see the line about snowing as something that makes sense that can be put into words, aren't lyrics at best when you feel what they mean, but you could never put it into words?

That's how I've always enjoyed Nelly's songs. They invoke all these scenes and feelings, and I think I understand them, but it's very difficult to explain how I understand them or what I think they mean. That's why I love this excercise of trying to express what the hell they mean to me, and in trying to put all that into words, I've come to appreciate them even more.

Again, you put it much better than I could:

Originally Posted by Icescape

I think this song on purpose goes to create a very dream like athmosphere, you never really know what the lyrics mean, but you feel the wonder in the air.

And about the snow, yeah, I don't think I can relate very much to that... . And I love how to you the snow means the awakening of memories, exactly the opposite of what I thought.

[jax1511]

Originally Posted by Icescape

Jax (if anyone was bored enough to read this far) I feel that childhood thing strongly too in this. I for one don't see the line about snowing as something that makes sense that can be put into words, aren't lyrics at best when you feel what they mean, but you could never put it into words? For me they kind of are. With these words I personally get the feeling that it's not symbolic of anything but just more spontaneous, direct, it's just snow and you know it

Agreed, I definitely had trouble trying to express what the line meant, but at the same time I can feel what she's talking about. That's the beauty of alot of Nelly's lyrics, at least to me. She has the ability to invoke feelings in many, but leaves it a bit vague for each individual to bring their own experience to it.

[Maca (Mod)]

OK, to keep moving things along, here's

POWERLESS (SAY WHAT YOU WANT)

This is what Nelly had to say about it:

I get to see a lot of DJ-oriented performance stuff, and I?m into the heaviness of breakbeats, how raw and powerful they are. Everything lately has become so synthesised, but just the standard sound of breakbeats is inspiring. ?Powerless? uses breakbeats like that; it?s a real groove, a real vibe. It just carries you away. There?s a banjo mixed with a breakbeat from Malcolm McLaren?s ?Buffalo Gals.? So right away you?re bobbing your head. The lyrics are initially in-your-face, like, ?Okay, I know I?m going to be stereotyped in my life because that is the world we live in; that?s society.? But the song tries to find some sense of order in this complicated world.

Personally, Powerless is my fight song, my kick-ass song, and the one that comes to my mind when I need to feel ballsy about something. And it follows the line introduced in One-Trick Pony, like Jaz said in the beginning of the thread, it's a song about working out some issues.

It has to do with image and image distortion and how these things play out in the world today, how frustrating these things can become, especially to someone that's in the spotlight like her. She's complaining about it and how that affects her. I particularly love this line:

burn every notion that I may have a flame inside to fight, and say just what is on my mind withouth offending your might

in which you get a sense of how this issue annoys her, but also how she's not going to let it get to her core and change who she really is.

And this verse is a great example of her coming up with images to express an idea:

I saw her face outside today, weatherworn, looking all the rage, they took her passion and her gaze and made a poster. Now it's mocassins we sport, we take the culture and contort, perhaps only to distort what we are hiding

This verse makes me think a lot, lately about how society has given merchandise and trade so much importance. How much are we willing to let things turn into products? These lines make me think about, for example, United Colours of Benetton and their campaigns. I've always thought it's an original and cool marketing strategy, that maybe, in addition to selling stuff, they're praising human diversity and how beauty takes on many forms and faces. Powerless makes me wonder: well, are they, really?

And one thing that really gets on my nerves is how brand names and trademarks are being incorporated into culture, like it's OK that our lives should revolve around them. Think about the Nokia New Year's Eve concert she participated in. Why can't it be called "The New Year's Eve Celebration Concert, brought to you by Nokia"? Who cares about Nokia, really? Does Nokia care about New Year's Eve and music, or about profits? Why do we let these corporate strategies permeate our daily lives to such degree? To me personally, life is not about trade and products, and it's alarming that our societies just let themselves be fed this kind of thing. That's not a culture I would like to raise children in. See, this is what I like about Powerless, it ignites the flames inside I would like to fight for.

But, and Nelly's talent shines through again, it's not a song about being powerless about these issues, but about not letting these things get to you and about keeping your inner strength. It's about feeling powerless but having faith in yourself and finding the power inside that comes from just being you.

One of my favourite parts is:

Hey you, the one outside, are you gonna get in? Hey you, the one that don't fit in, how you gonna get in? Hey you, the one outside, are you ever gonna get in with your broken teeth, broken jaw, broken mojo?

Honestly, who hasn't had their mojo broken? It sucks, LOL! That line has just so much... nellyness in it. I can just see her autorship there, her originality and uniqueness.

I have a couple other things I'd like to discuss, but let's see what you guys have to say.

[jax1511]

Powerless is the song that made me a Nelly fan. I've said this before on the board, but I think it's worth repeating. I never was a Nelly fan (couldn't stand Like A Bird), until about a year and a half ago my friend (who is a HUGE Nelly fan) forced me to listen to Folklore. He and I share alot of the same views on life, not just music, so if he was so willing to stand behind this album I figured it was worth giving it a chance.

The energy in this song is absolutely amazing from the first note, needless to say Nelly hooked me. Then her voice comes in with the lines

"paint my face in your magazines make me look whiter than it seems/paint me over with your dreams/shove away my ethnicity"

and I was amazed. I actually stopped the cd and restarted to see if I heard her right. Then from there I let the track play all the way through and I could actually feel the anger in her voice. It's a brutally honest song and it's in your face from the beginning. She's putting those sterotypes out there from the beginning forcing you to pay attention to them. I think by her being the one to push the issue, she in turn is actually taking away her oppressors' (for lack of better word) power. This sort of reminds me of the movie "8Mile" in the last scene where Eminem is supposed to battle that guy Poppa Doc and his friend Bob makes a joke that he already KNOWS what his opponent is going to say about him (he's from a trailer, his girl's a slut..etc). Then when Eminem gets on the stage he throws all those ideas out there first -- leaving Poppa Doc speechless.

So in that respect, by Nelly being the one to call attention to these stereotypes she's also able to break them down and fight them with honesty. She's definitely not apologizing for them and is telling people their words are pretty much empty, that they don';t have the effect they think they're having.