All Good Things - Folklore

[Sunshine07]

sweet! we all made really great points and Maca is right--Im proud of us for having a nice discussion!! yay us! haha
I think we can all come to the conclusion that we know that Nelly has TONS of talent (I personally think that every song she has ever sang on is amazing--I have a special Nelly Furtado playlist on my iPod with just about 100 songs!!)...we know that she makes great music and even if it's not popular, she'll still have the die-hard fans like us

Also, Jax--You are totally right about music labels taking away their freedom. It sucks a lot! The power of corporation, eh?

Wouldn't it be cool if she signed onto an independent label? That would be awesome, but it probably wouldn't fly...lol...just a thought though!

[Maca (Mod)]

OK first, about trends:

The boyband and bubble-gum pop era is in the past, we as a society kinda outgrew that, thank God. Now it's the time of hip-hop and R&B influenced stuff, and it's getting sickening cause Timbaland seems to be everywhere. Timbaland has proved that he does have longevity (think of Cry Me A River by Justin Timberlake and the Missy Elliot songs that jax mentioned earlier), but I think he is not THAT talented and he may be reaching the end of his turn at the spotlight, or is that me just hoping?

So SOMETHING new has to come after this. The thing that worries me is that everyone is doing this, doing carefree commercial music. I think Christina Aguilera, with Back to Basics, has done it with style and originality, going retro. But it's still not my cup of tea, really.

I also think that the whole Do It controversy might have had Nelly meditating a bit about getting so distant from the production process as she did with Loose. She has sampled lots of songs in the past but in the "legal" or acceptable way. Kudos to her, Track & Field and Lil' Jazz. She co-produced her first two records, that's a major creative difference with Loose. And if Do It does become the fifth single in the US, the whole scandal or mini-scandal is bound to surface again. So that's my light at the end of the tunnel in the whole get-away-from-Timbo collective wishing we have going on, LOL.

About the Loose build-up:

Yeah, it's been a long way coming. During 2005 she kept posting lots of really cool messages about the creative process and all the producers she worked with and all the songs she wrote. I wrote a long, loooong, essay-like post about how Loose turned out different than it was building up to be, but I can't remember on what thread that was. But yeah I'm totally and completely obsessed with the b-sides cause they are like little clues of what the process was like. Try and dig it up, or if you want PM me and I'll search for it.

And.....

One-Trick Pony is my favorite song from Folklore (or as close as I can actually get to choose if I had to). I love, love, LOOOVE the arrangements by the Kronos Quartet. The collaborations in Folklore are so classy: Caetano Veloso in Island Of Wonder, Bela Fleck in For?a, Jarvis Church (Gerald Eaton from Track & Field) in Saturdays... It's a class act all the way.

If you guys are tired of me drooling over Folklore tell me. Not that it actually would make a difference, LOL

[Nat]

yes, that's why i love this song most from "Loose"

It makes me feel like Nelly doesn't forget her old music and she is still with it! It makes me feel like "Folklore"

[jax1511]

Icescape- Great points. I think I'm naturally a bit cynical when it comes to labels having worked at an indie a few years back and having friends at both indies and majors. It's a catch 22 -- Yes, it's good Nelly proved she can be a commercial success, but now she's re-upped the bar as far as album sales. Loose was a huge hit commercially, which made up for the lack of sales of Folklore. Loose will give her a bargaining chip with Geffen to go in and say "this is what I'm doing next" -- but it doesn't necessarily mean she'll get what she asks for (completely). But Geffen has one thing on their mind, money, which is why they have packaged Nelly/Loose the way they have. They're playing up her sexuality (which many artists do) and using that as the main selling point behind Loose. I wonder how long it will take (if it hasn't already happened) before Nelly just gets sick of being one-dimensional in her labels eyes, because she's proven to us she's definitely not just a sex object.

Oh, and I absolutely LOVE One Trick Pony. Part of me finds it contridictive of her current state -- meaning, "for you I will not dance, for you I will not prance" which is exactly what she is doing with Loose -- but at the same time I see it a bit tongue in cheek like Nelly sees Geffen's angle, she's working it, but in the end she's actually in control.

Maca - I NEVER get tired of hearing/talking about Folklore. I refer to it as one of the best albums many people have never heard. I actually had my friend (who hated Nelly's older stuff) listen to "Childhood Dreams" without telling her it was Nelly. By the end of the song she was crying and said it was one of the most beautiful songs she's ever heard. She was amazed when I told her it was Nelly.

About the carefree music trend -- curious what you think of Amy Winehouse or if you ever heard her stuff? Just picked up her album "back to black" and I'm really into it. She took a very 60's soul type of vibe, but put some pretty dark lyrics on it. I like how the lyrics play off the emotion of the music, but at the same time contradicts it. For instance, they used alot of big/brassy horns on it so you would think it's this happy song, but when you listen to the lyrics and her voice you hear the pain behind it all. It's interesting stuff. I'd be happy to send you some mp3s if you like.

Sunshine - I really hate the music industry. Well, it's a love/hate because I truly love music and how it makes me feel -- but I hate all the non-sense that goes along with labels. There's so many amazing artists out there that will never be heard (by a many) because a select few people control what's played or what's considered "good." It drives me crazy

[Maca (Mod)]

Originally Posted by jax1511

It's a catch 22 -- Yes, it's good Nelly proved she can be a commercial success, but now she's re-upped the bar as far as album sales.

Yeah, you're so right, it is a big trap. Now Geffen would expect a new album to sell as much as or more than Loose did, which could be very difficult anyhow, but especially if she wants to take another direction with her music.

I wonder how these contracts work... Does her contract include several albums, like say Loose and two more, before it expires? Or can she switch labels after Loose?

Originally Posted by jax1511

Oh, and I absolutely LOVE One Trick Pony. Part of me finds it contridictive of her current state -- meaning, "for you I will not dance, for you I will not prance" which is exactly what she is doing with Loose -- but at the same time I see it a bit tongue in cheek like Nelly sees Geffen's angle, she's working it, but in the end she's actually in control.

The "for you I will not dance/prance" lyrics are a reference to another song called One-Trick Pony, but I can't remember by who. It's a sad song about a sad pony, lol. But yeah, that's what I always thought with the Loose stuff, that Nelly's giving them what they want but staying in control, I hope that's true

About the Childhood Dreams thing... SNEAKY GIRL YOU!!! That has happened to me too. People get really impressed when they realize Nelly is not another pop airhead, like they think she is. But Childhood Dreams I don't share with anyone, it's mine, lol!!

I have never listened to Amy Winehouse but now I'm so intrigued!!! I WILL listen to her stuff as soon as possible, send the mp3's over, I cant wait.

[jax1511]

^ I'm not sure how Nelly's contract works, all artists differ as far as length.. but basically she is pretty much indebtted to Geffen until she completes her contract or unless she's willing to take legal action and break away, but that is never a wise thing to do. Especially now that many labels have mergered in the last few years.

PM me your email address -- I can send you 3 tracks that I have on this computer. If you like them, I can send you more when I get home from work later.

My friend keeps telling me "let everyone else have Loose, Folklore is mine" when I voice my concerns over this latest album. I guess most people who love Folklore has that sort of unwillingness to share it.

[ariesjow]

Am I the only one here who honestly believes that Folklore is not a "masterpiece" but a strong album that's a bit over-indulgent at times??? I appreciate where Nelly was going with Folklore but I just don't believe it's Nelly's Little Earthquakes or Debut the way some of you feel. *covers face waiting for tomatoes to be tossed at him*

In my opinion, songs like "Saturdays" and "Childhood Dreams" come off as too contrived as much as a track like "Promiscuous" or "Do It" does too commercial. Whoa, Nelly! is Furtado's best balance of substance and style. That album managed to be simultaneously unique, relevant, and commercially successful without taking itself too seriously. Nelly has still yet to create a "masterpiece" though.

I also don't understand the Old Nelly/New Nelly debates. She's the same woman. As I wrote in a similar discussion in another forum, it seems so overblown to me. Sure, her music is more commercial now than ever and I could see a smathering of mainstream artists coming out with a track like "Promiscuous" but songs like "Say It Right" and "All Good Things" are Nelly through and through. They are brilliant. No matter how drenched with Timbo's urban production they are, tracks like these set her apart from artists like Fergie who are merely a product of the fad.

Though it's clear she's being marketed to death, I don't believe she lost herself with Loose. Instead, I think Nelly is challenging herself as an artist and exploring all sorts of music that she adores. Keep in mind that the artists we love don't live in a bubble. Their music preferences are constantly evolving like our own. They are inspired by the past as well as the current (in this case, hip-hop). No matter what her label expects, I fully expect her next album to be completely different from all her previous ones.

That's my quasi-rant of the day. I respect most of the opinions I've read here and agree with many of you on some of what's been written (especially Maca's comments). I just tend to believe people may be over-reacting a little bit in response to Furtado's recent success.

Originally Posted by Maca

You don't have to have a smash album and hit singles every single time, you don't have to conform to trends or to what's hot right now to sell records and be suitable to be signed by a label. I'd rather listen to honest music than to hot, trendy stuff.

Yes, but I'd also argue the very best songs and albums of all-time are those that managed to be both "honest" and relevant to their time (not "trendy" per se but you get my drift).

[jax1511]

^ I'm hesitatant to call Folklore a masterpiece, so I won't, but I think it's a pretty eclectic album that you don't typically see from a popstar, especially when Nelly had tremendous commercial success with "Like a Bird." Yes, I can see it as being a bit over-indulgent at times, but overall, the creativity level I find inspiring. Perhaps her goals were a bit lofty, but I think overall, she pulled it off. She wanted to present something that was representative of her roots and I think Folklore lived up to that.

Loose is a smart pop album, but I think it's a safe album. Timbaland is the man of the moment and let's face it, anything he releases will climb charts because that is what is hot right now. I've said it before, I don't hate Loose or think it's horrible, I just feel very disconnected from alot of the material.

[Maca (Mod)]

Originally Posted by ariesjow

Whoa, Nelly! is Furtado's best balance of substance and style. That album managed to be simultaneously unique, relevant, and commercially successful without taking itself too seriously. Nelly has still yet to create a "masterpiece" though.

I agree 100% with you. Whoa, Nelly! can be qualified as a better album in the sense that it achieves a lot of things. Jax wrote before that coming up with fun. chart-topping and smart songs is the challenge the pop industry should be striving to meet, and I think that Turn Off The Light is a perfect example of how to do that. It's cool, funny, it was a smash hit and it still makes you think and wonder about what she is saying.

When I drool all over Folklore it is because I have developed a very personal relation to it. It speaks to me. It amazes me how Nelly, personally, put so much on the table, revealing so much stuff about how she feels. But the first time I listened to Folklore I thought "WHAT??? Where are the badabada ching-ching-chings and dajidadajida-ding-dings? Where is the uplifting mood??" I thought it was a little bit dull to be honest, but it was with further listens that I fell in love with it.

And I have never thought that Saturdays and Childhood Dreams are contrived, I have always thought that they are very honest, but I see your point.

Originally Posted by ariesjow

I could see a smathering of mainstream artists coming out with a track like "Promiscuous" but songs like "Say It Right" and "All Good Things" are Nelly through and through. They are brilliant. No matter how drenched with Timbo's urban production they are, tracks like these set her apart from artists like Fergie who are merely a product of the fad.

Though it's clear she's being marketed to death, I don't believe she lost herself with Loose. Instead, I think Nelly is challenging herself as an artist and exploring all sorts of music that she adores. Keep in mind that the artists we love don't live in a bubble. Their music preferences are constantly evolving like our own. They are inspired by the past as well as the current (in this case, hip-hop). No matter what her label expects, I fully expect her next album to be completely different from all her previous ones..

This is what I've been trying to say all along!! I agree 100%

Originally Posted by ariesjow

Yes, but I'd also argue the very best songs and albums of all-time are those that managed to be both "honest" and relevant to their time (not "trendy" per se but you get my drift).

I do... What albums would you say have achieved this? I think that Bj?rk's Vespertine may be analogous to Folklore, a chance taken on something different but people didn't quite get it, what do you think?

[ariesjow]

^ I think we're probably more on the same page than I originally thought. I guess I've just been a little suprised at how much more Folklore is revered amongst Nelly fans since I've always had a stronger response to Whoa Nelly! But I totally agree on Turn Off the Lights which is actually my favorite Nelly song ever.

I definitely think Bjork's Vespertine is analogous to Folklore. Maybe Medulla is too but that album was such a colossal brain fuck that perhaps not. Medulla = Folklore if Nelly recorded it after a weekend acid binge. I think Bjork's first three solo albums are probably perfect examples of albums that were simultaneously "honest" and relevant though.

Speaking of Bjork, I really, really want to see Nelly work with someone like Guy Sigsworth. She should also work with Cee-Lo since she really enjoyed "Crazy." Imagine what the two of them would come up with together.